Inspired Execution

Narrator: Inspired Execution, hosted by DataStax Chairman and CEO Chet Kapoor, follows the journeys of leaders from the world's largest enterprises and fastest-growing startups.
 

Narrator: Aashima Gupta is Google Cloud's Director of Global Healthcare Strategy and Solutions. She started out as a programmer in the finance industry and later found her calling in healthcare at Kaiser Permanente. Today, Aashima shares how Google Cloud is helping providers meet their patients with the right information at the right time, the importance of taking an outside-in approach when you're building products, how to focus on impact versus activities, and the difference between a mentor and a sponsor.

Chet Kapoor: Aashima, welcome to the podcast.

Aashima Gupta: Thank you, Chet. An absolute honor to be here with you today.

Chet: I can still remember the day and exactly where I was when I had my first call with you while you were at Kaiser. Probably one of my best calls that I made in trying to convince you and hang out with us at Apigee. I'm so glad you did. The impact you had on the company, the impact that you're having at Google Cloud, and more importantly, the impact that you're having on the industry is just spectacular. Great, great stuff. It is awesome to have you on the podcast. Let's get started. So you worked at JP Morgan Chase, Kaiser, and more. Apigee, obviously. Google Cloud now. You've been focused on healthcare for quite some time. Right? Tell us a little bit about your story.

Aashima: Well, thank you, Chet. So I'll start from the beginning. So having studied my bachelor's and masters in computer science. So I came to the states in 1997 and my first job was at Fidelity Investments. I grew through the ranks as a programmer, and that became the field of Fintech as we now call it. It's a fascinating world. In fact, I don't know if you know this, Chet. My first two patents are in Fintech. So I spent good 10+ years in the finance industry, JP Morgan Chase, Fidelity Investments, and things like that. In 2008, the sudden loss of my father due to health reasons, he was in India back then, it made me reflect and have a kind of deeper look into what do I want to do next. At the heart of computer science, the work we do, we are always doing some problem-solving.

Aashima: So then the question is, what kind of problem do you want to solve? So it made me think about how should I spend my time going forward. And it was, when there's a will, there's a way. Stars were aligned and Kaiser had an opening and I knew the CIO back then. So he had come from the banking world, too. So that became okay, I want to find a deeper meaning and join Kaiser Permanente. I was there for 6+ years when I first met you.

Aashima: And I still remember, Chet, how convincing you were, and thank you for giving me the opportunity of a lifetime and recruiting me into this thing, a phenomenon called Apigee. To me, Apigee was a big, big part of my journey. And not because it was a startup. It was, I think, what Apigee stood for. And, Chet, sorry for embarrassing you there, but you created a culture where we all felt like we could take chances. We had a decision attitude and an obsession about customers. I think that's were the few things in that journey. And then Apigee gets acquired by Google. And here I am taking those lessons learned along the journey and bringing that to my work.

Chet: How is it been at Google? Because if I think about the platform, right, having spent three years there, you're solving intergalactic problems, right? And healthcare is definitely ripe for change, right? A lot is happening in healthcare, but it's still fairly slow-moving, and I'm sure COVID has helped quite a bit. But how has it been having a platform like Google actually affect change in the industry?

Aashima: That's a great question, Chet. So stepping back, as you said, healthcare as an industry is pretty slow. But if you look into it, we have some of the best and brightest people in healthcare in general in the industry. We have remarkable labs, really good hospital systems, incredible scientific achievements. Our hospitals are among the very best in the world, and the talent to match. And yet, when you look into how much we are spending, we are spending way too much on healthcare for Americans – around two to three times more than any other high-income nations. And yet the outcomes, be the chronic disease, be it life expectancy or infant mortality—we do not have much to boast about despite all the resources, despite all the talent and spending we have in healthcare in the U.S. So when you look into, from a Google perspective, as a role for big tech to play. But in the end, it is around the ecosystem. The hospitals, the big tech, the start-up all have to come together because the challenge is much, much bigger than one company alone.

Aashima: So from Google's perspective, our north star has always been... it was founded in the idea of, can we provide the right information at the right time in the right setting when you do the search as an example. So now from the health perspective, when you're meeting patients in the most vulnerable moments, what can Google do? So one is the consumer side. But where I sit in the enterprise, we are enabling them to meet their patient, their consumers, and helping them provide the right information at the right time. So again, going back to the mission... it became much more real, but it's much more focused on the enterprises where I sit in the Google Cloud setting.

Chet: How about ML and AI? And if you can narrow it—not just from a Google perspective because Google does a lot in ML and AI across the board—but from a Google Cloud perspective, how is ML and AI affecting healthcare and all the people that you talk to?

Aashima: Great question, Chet. To start us off, I want to root us all in a statement that is actually not mine. This is from McKinsey. They're saying in less than 10 years, by 2030, AI will be the number one driver for global GDP growth. That means enterprises will be adopting AI and that AI absorption in the enterprise is going to be the key in driving the growth. And healthcare is no exception. But in healthcare, where AI truly matters is the outcomes. So I'll give an example and kind of make it real. So we all talk about there's a variety of data in healthcare settings—the volume, the variety's overwhelming for physicians. So the work that we are doing with Mayo Clinic is around radiation therapy. So if you are unfortunate in having cancer, radiotherapy is the number one– the first line of treatment you're given is radiation for most types of cancers.

Aashima: So here, what we are really working on– when you are giving radiation therapy to a patient, there's a lot of planning that happens before the radiation is given. So there are tumors and a radiation therapist then contours the tumors so that the radiation can be precise and given to distinguish the healthy tissue from the tumor tissue. So now we are working with Mayo Clinic in understanding the different tumor types and different cancers, especially for head and neck cancers, and having AI draw the contours around tumors, thereby saving the workflow time. So the preparation time gets reduced to much, much less. And they are really looking into creating those treatment plans for patients where AI is assisting. And this is just one example where we have a wealth of data around head and neck tumors and cancer type. But here we have trained the algorithm to see a cancer tumor and target the delivery of radiation therapy. So it's more kind of automation– automating the back office, the radiation specialist, and bringing that AI into that workflow, if you will.

Chet: That is an awesome use case. So let me take it in exactly the opposite direction. There's a very strong movement in healthcare about empathy, right? It is not just about curing something, but actually being there for the patients as well. Does AI help with that or does it actually hurt that, right? Because at the end of the day, it's the relationship that the doctor, the surgeon, the nurse, and everybody else has with the patient.

Aashima: That's a great point, Chet. And I strongly believe our healthcare story's yet to be written. And for the very first time, patients are the ones writing that healthcare story. When patients come to a healthcare system or a doctor, they're letting us into those stories before they know how a physician or a health system can respond with compassion or understanding that needs to be established. And that's where I believe AI can help bridge the gap. Human connection is important and healthcare is a human endeavor, but can we make that experience much more powerful for both physician [and patient]?

Aashima: So imagine if you are going to a physician, but they know all your history, they know based on this condition what other patients like yourselves have gone through, what treatment has worked or not worked. But even having the data at the fingertip, it's still very, very difficult. So to me, technology will be an enabler to establish that kind of empathetic connection, but it's not going to replace the human connection. So I think that's where I would want to distinguish– can we enable that human endeavor, that human connection with compassion and providing that complete understanding of a patient?

Chet: If I can extend that, what you're saying is with everything that ML and AI do, it actually frees up the time for the care provider to spend more time with the patient on things that they care more about, rather than sifting through data and coming up with recommendations. I mean, you have the systems helping you out with recommendations. The healthcare provider still needs to make a recommendation, but they have more time for compassion. Is that a fair way to look at it?

Aashima: You nailed it, Chet. Absolutely. The amount of data being generated and will be generated is going to be overwhelming. And even in today's case, a physician spends roughly two hours per day on documentation. So they do the patient notes, they type it into the HR. So with AI, if you look into different building blocks, conversation, language, computer vision... can they all come together in handling that or reducing the administration burden?

Chet: Let's talk a little bit about leading. I have always maintained—and you've heard me say a couple of things—one is facts are outside, opinions are inside. And the second thing is it's not about coaching and managing, it's about influencing, because you can actually get to more people that way. You have developed a very strong outside-in approach, from just thinking about the patient, the healthcare worker, and then moving back, right? And using all your technical expertise to actually bring the technology to serve them. How do you take the strong approach you have and actually remind people that it is really important to think about things from that the outside-in point of view, rather than the inside-out point of view. Especially at a company like Google, which, by the way, solves massively big problems with a very strong technology point of view?

Aashima: Yeah Chet, and I'll go back again to when I first met you. At Kaiser, I had the depth, right? I was very good at understanding the technology stack and Kaiser as an integrated delivery network. So I knew what I knew. And then when I joined Apigee and it became pretty clear– I remember in my first month you said the same lines you used today. "The facts are outside. Meet with as many customers as you can." And it didn't come naturally to me. I am basically an introverted person. To be able to make and meet people was a chore. But I have to tell you, Chet, it served me so well because that's where now you are seeing the perspective of your stakeholders. And that's where we call it outside-in perspective. I had to practice it. I had to get discipline around it because it fundamentally is about seeing the world through the eyes of your key stakeholders, your key buyers.

Aashima: And I remember you had a whole program around it like, "How are they thinking?" But in the end, you also had this phenomenon that we called, "Customers are your product managers." And we are not giving them or selling them technology. And the same thing is now true for Google. We are really asking them to reimagine how will they become different, better, and transform their industry leveraging technology. So the conversation completely changes because you're not talking about technology for the sake of technology. You're really understanding very deeply, what is the business problem they're trying to solve? What is the business transformation they're going to undertake and how can you help them? So changes the kind of the equation, if you will.

Chet: You're in this unique position where you actually have to see the forest with boards you're on, with the strategic role you have, as well as you need to focus on the trees, right? You have to focus on execution because, without execution, you have nothing. How do you do that at a personal level? Any tips and tricks there?

Aashima: I would say doing less. So choosing a handful of projects to work on that are mission-critical. And there's always that principle: focus on the 20% of your work that will have 80% of the impact. And another thing, again reflecting back on Apigee days is: activity doesn't count, impact does. So that kind of puts you, am I doing this activity for the sake of the activity? And how do you measure impact? And that's where focusing on doing less, focusing on a handful of projects which will have this impact. And that was, I believe, one of the best advice. So to focus on very, very few things, but doing them well. Otherwise, you're just too scattered. You are doing everything and a lot of activities, but there's no impact.

Chet: That's a much nicer way to say what I continue to say, which is, "Activities don't pay for college educations." But I 100 percent agree with that. Let's talk a little bit about you personally. What comes naturally to you?

Aashima: I think to me, naturally is the problem-solving. And healthcare is now very personal to me after losing my dad, and I don't know, Chet, if I told you... My mom went through a COVID episode back in India. So to make that personal connection with your work, it's now part of me, it's how I work. And I believe it's very rare where your passion and your profession combine. And that's where I would say it comes naturally to me, but there's that link that I'm able to establish. And it's been pretty fundamental to how I work. The "why" of what I do is that.

Chet: What has been hard? What is something you've had to work on to overcome?

Aashima: So what has been hard at times, Chet, diversity and inclusion are still much talked about. But finding your path and focusing on reducing the noise around you takes practice. It takes time, but being intentional about it has helped me. But it's not always like that. So reducing the noise around one's own path is important. And I've seen that in the journey, I found really good mentors, sponsors. And Chet, you know you're one of them. It's important. And the difference I draw here between a mentor and a sponsor is the following: Hey, the mentor is giving advice. How can you do things better for yourself? Whereas in the sponsorship position are the people who advocate for you and they create opportunities for you. So I've been very fortunate and lucky to have the sponsorship along the way, Chet. But again, it's not a straight line. You do internalize the noise and still keep moving forward– progress.

Chet: I absolutely love the distinction between mentor and sponsor. That was very well articulated. I've constantly said two things. One is you have to recognize that you zigzag your way through. There is no straight line, even though history writes it that way. It's never that way. The second thing is, I constantly talk about this, Aashima, and I want your point of view on this– Anybody that has cracked work-life balance is full of shit because it's a constant struggle, right? You're constantly juggling being a parent, being a child, having children, work, and everything you're doing for the world, right? And so you seem to juggle it all. I've had a chance to see you up close and personal, and it's not the easiest thing, right? You have to prioritize. And at some point, you want to make sure you prioritize this over the other. For aspiring younglings, right, who are listening to this podcast, any words of advice on work-life balance kind of thing?

Aashima: Chet, I think you've already given that advice. There is no balance.

Chet: The struggle is the balance, right?

Aashima: Exactly. But if you understand why you're doing– so work doesn't feel like work to me more, Chet, right? This is what I do. This is a passion. So finding something that sparks that passion in you, then work doesn't look like work. So yeah. So then you are, then it's life. It's all kind integrated—your personal life, your work life. It's all one. And I have to tell you that I have many moments, Chet, where I feel I've not been a good mother. I constantly am riddled with that guilt, all the time. But you do your best and you do better with what you have. Going back where a few months ago, when mom had COVID, I left everything and spent all my time with her. So you will see, and you will rise up, and time gets created for things that matter. So at times, the work will take priority. At times, the family will take priority. But it'll not be harmonious day-to-day.

Chet: Who inspires you?

Aashima: My mom is the greatest inspiration to me. And it's been pretty tough seeing her in COVID. One thing that stood out for me was resilience. And this is one of the things that I will take from that experience. Isolation is very hard for seniors, and COVID was really devastating back in India. But she would still smile and say, "No, I'll get through that." And she got through it. It's been a pretty tough journey, but that resilience that I've seen in her is what is inspiring to me right now. And I'll take that forward with me.

Chet: All right. I have some rapid-fire, quick response questions. There are four of them. I'm going to start with the first. What new technology are you most excited about?

Aashima: Current focuses around health equity. We are seeing machine learning and artificial intelligence can play an important role in advancing health equity. So today your zip code pretty much tells how healthy you will be. And now there's a lot of effort in can we make it healthcare equitable? That's something I'm very, very, excited about.

Chet: What are you reading or listening to right now?

Aashima: Indra's new book, My Life in Full.

Chet: By the way, just started reading it. She starts with a very personal aspect of her life. Generally, when people write autobiographies, right, they generally start by one of the high points. And so I love the beginning. I've just started reading it. It's a super interesting book. If you can have a dinner party with only three people, who's on your invite list?

Aashima: So I would start with Barack Obama. RBG. And now, I think as I'm reading the book, I'm becoming a fan of Indra Nooyi... so, her.

Chet: That's good. At least the good news is that they all know each other. Right? So, you'll be hanging around three people that have met and talked to each other a bit. And so that's awesome. What's one word or phrase that defines a good leader?

Aashima: I would say humble.

Chet: Last question. Not in a rapid-fire mode, but what advice would you share with a younger version of yourself?

Aashima: I would say take risks, just go out and do it. As they say, you miss a hundred percent of the chances or shots you never take. It's so true in life. So I would say take risks, go do it, bet on yourself. We all bet on others. We bet on our families, friends. You need to bet on yourself, as well.

Chet: That's awesome. Aashima. This has been spectacular and I'm sure our listeners will learn so much. Really appreciate you making the time.

Aashima: Thank you, Chet. Always an honor. And thank you for being part of this journey for me. It means a lot. Thank you.

Narrator: To be a great leader, you have to be willing to get out of your comfort zone. It's also crucial to look at the world through the eyes of your customers and really understand what problems they're trying to solve. Remember Aashima's advice to focus on the 20% of your work that will have 80% of the impact. And finally, look for sponsors – not just mentors – to advocate for you and help create new opportunities throughout your career.

Narrator: Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode of the Inspired Execution podcast. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the show and drop us any questions or feedback at inspiredexecution@datastax.com.